Im at that point in the game where i have to place the Lordvessel with either Frampt or Kaathe, though am not sure which one would be better to keep gameplay wise. I feeded stuff to Frampt until I get Vessel. To be fair, you weren't "chosen" in DkS1 either. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Kaathe allows you to join the Darkwraith covenant, which grants access to an item (the Red Eye Orb) which allows for infinite invasions. Dragons don’t naturally eat dark. So you have a God of Sunlight, banished from his sun-god family, coming from Heaven to destroy a many-headed serpent. The self serving thing makes sense considering the serpent rings say that serpents are...how did the ring put it again? Frampt for PvE builds, Kaathe for PvP builds; that’s my philosophy, anyways. For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Does choosing between Frampt or Kaathe to.... *Spoilers*". You know what you guys need? While Kaathe is more...open about his intentions. Kaathe is deceptive, but Frampt seems dishonest. #12. What can be seen is the form of a bald human figure, physically indistinguishable from a modern human. ; You can "Feed" (sell) him any item. Reaping and shepherding souls and humanity may not be much worse than burning them as an expendable resource to perpetuate a vain existence. Would be kinda cool. The key thing that is happening with what I did is that the Lordvessel is placed and I can still use both. Frampt or Kaathe. If you are looking for a quick overview of the game's walkthrough , follow our recommended Game Progress Route.. Description. Darkstalker Kaathe is a Character in Dark Souls.. Encounters. tldr; Kaathe and Frampt have always been the same being, or at least of the same motive, working to complete a plan that would eventually outlive the Serpents, and end with us becoming the Lord of Hollows at the end of Dark Souls 3. Well, Kaathe was really the only right choice. Sen's Gate only blocks off Sen's Fortress, Anor Londo (+Duke's Archives/Crystal Cave), and the deepest sections of Giant's Tomb and Demon Ruins (since you need the Lord Vessel from Anor Londo to clear the orange fog, unless there are more skips I'm unaware of). Close. Also can you do the sen's skip with DS fix? Endings for Dark Souls and Dark Souls Remastered offers detailed guides on being able to acquire the various endings of the story. Kaathe believes the Age of … Turns out he was still friendly towards me! Maybe Frampt's real plan was for you to defeat Gwynn, while learning enough along the way to realize rekindling the flame is a bad idea. Kaathe literally runs a band of murderers and is hinted to have caused the people of Oolacile to awaken Manus, bringing about the destruction of their land. But they don't want the cycle to break. We have no evidence that frampt instructed gwyn to start the war with the dragons either. (btw i already ranked up enough in the darkwraith covenant to get all the items.) So what if Frampt/Kaathe feared Gwyn, and created the Undead Curse as a way to lure potential "soldiers" to the first flame to destroy him? For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Are Frampt and Kaathe on the same side? I imagine their forms as snakes was somewhat symbolic of their nature. Which should I choose. So Frampt could either be more evil than Kaathe, or he could be argued as having a similar end-goal via different means. EDIT: A lot of people are pointing out that the Sens Gate Skip isn't needed to fight the Four Kings, which is true. Oct 23, 2013 @ 5:16am Nope, you can`t. Guess the game doesn't start considering the "take Kaathe, leave Frampt" until you ring both bells and open Sen's Fortress. If you do what you say whenever you place it, one of them will leave. Doing all of that without fast travel was a little tedious. Darkstalker Kaathe will appear in the Abyss, after defeating the Four Kings, if the player has not already placed the Lordvessel through Kingseeker Frampt. Kaathe is a mystery as to what his true motives are. But, as soon as you place the Lordvessel at least one of them will be hostile towards you, right? Gwyn fought against the dragons after talking to Frampt. The tutorial video said he was in vanilla game on pc. He can break down Titanite into its smaller components. We know very little about frampt outside of his role of kingseeker but he could have been a loyal confidant of gwyn or a one time acquaintance who lied about his bond and we will never know. The skip is necessary to place the lord vessel before ringing the bells. But the dark ending shows Frampt as well, serving. As to why we can get into death cam like that, I have no idea. At that point I was curious as to what would happen if I spoke with Frampt now, so I went and rang both bells. Why does Frampt side with Kaathe and the Dark Lord in the DS1 Dark Lord ending? Then from the dark, they came, and found the Souls of Lords within the flame. The cycle must go on, dark or light. 'Selfish' is a better word, though both of them are also just smaller pieces of a huge puzzle. *SPOILERS* The breaking point is when you place the Lordvessel, and now you won't side with either Frampt or Kaathe. Kingseeker Frampt only appears after the Bells of Awakening have been rung. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, it is possible to get Kaathe without making Frampy angry. Should have made that clearer in the original post, sorry for confusion! You were just a guy who did better than all the other guys. This just allows you to do whatever with Kaathe without upsetting Frampt, not placing the Lordvessel. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It works because when you go into death cam, the game doesn't load things like doors, or in this case, the gate. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Yes he is probably manipulating you through the lie of the Chosen Undead but he is doing it for what he and Gwyn thought would have been the best for everyone, both the Gods and Mens alike. But Kingseer Frampt also has an equally shiny brother with completely different intentions – Darkstalker Kaathe. Seeking to prolong the enslavement of humanity for the sake of extending the Age of Fire. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Also it's never implied that all Dragons are able to eat the Abyss. save hide report. Two sides ont he same coin...Just wanting one side more. Which might be the reason kalameet is there. How do you believe Frampt is linked to usher the world into the agw of dark? To learn the art of life drain to feed off other humans. Kaathe is more honest about what he wants IMO. Just a fun thing I thought I would share. Kingseeker Frampt, the Primordial Serpent, is in a deep slumber beneath Firelink Shrine when the Chosen Undead begins their quest. Considering what we know about Londor and Kaathe's role in DS1 I'd imagine he would be worshipped as a deity in a place like that. Yes, though evil is subjective in this matter. Siding with one causes the other to leave you for the rest of the playthrough. Its been used in speedruns since it was found ;), can you do this without the sens gate skip too? Note: Darkstalker Kaathe will not appear if you sided with Frampt and placed the Lordvessel. Letting the fire die was the only way to save the world - … greedy and associated with gluttony? Keeps it simple. Talking to Frampt triggers placing the vessel. Frampt, on the other hand, allows you to "sell" items for souls, and he'll break down large titanite pieces into smaller ones. Nito, the first of the dead, the Witch of Izalith, and her Daughters of Chaos, Gwyn, the Lord of Sunlight, and his faithful knight… Kaathe is another primordial serpent, like Frampt, only Kaathe resides in the Abyss and thinks Frampt is an idiot for siding with Lord Gwyn. (Spoilers)". The reason behind my reasoning is that the Four Kings in dark souls 1 … I always got the impression that they were essentially self-serving entities that were wise enough not to put themselves in the firing line by acting as advisors to coerce people to enact their wants. Another discrepancy some people are pointing out that it is possible to get Kaathe without making Frampy angry. Press J to jump to the feed. Given or dropped by Gwynevere, Princess of Sunlight after the player gains access to Anor Londo and defeats Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough. The God's had abandoned the world since Gwyn went hollow. I ended up getting to the Four Kings and placing the Lordvessel with Kaathe. Kingseeker Frampt is a Character in Dark Souls. Frampt isn't outright evil. Sound familiar? All of Frampt's actions, from Dark Souls, all the way through Dark Souls 3, served to bring this plan to light. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Lol. He is ambiguously good, he is grooming you in order to succeed to Lord Gwyn and prolong the Age of Fire, a distorted cycle but the alternative is much worse as Kaathe attempts to start the Age of Dark, only ended up as creating destructive abominations like the Four Kings and Manus. 3. The most plausible situation that Kaathe or another serpent would appear is as a ruling party of the Sable church in Londor. I believe they are maybe a bit like Yin and Yang. For Dark Souls on the Xbox 360, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "frampt or kaathe Spoilers". The player must place the Lordvessel for Kaathe instead of Frampt. Kaathe desires the end of the Age of Fire. I realize these events take place in DS1 and this is a DS3 sub, but it has everything to do with the series, and this is the latest place to discuss the series at large, so you'll just have to excuse me for posting this question here. Imagine fighting Frampt and Kaathe while they were killing eachother. Returning to the natural state, away from the chaos of disparity, may not be that evil. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Nope, I really wanted that to happen but never did :(. If so, pics? Kaathe is a Primordial Serpent, just like Kingseeker Frampt.He is the Leader of the Darkwraiths Covenant, and it was he who tempted The Four Kings with the power of Life Drain which, in turn, led to the eventual flooding of New Londo.. Heat and cold, life and death, and of course, light and dark. It doesn't seem very clear, haha. Ruling over all hollows until the return of the true Lord of Hollows perhaps. I believe Frampt is just as bad, wanting to keep the cycle so he can keep feasting. With PvE characters, I want to take my time, get summoned for bosses, and enjoy the different areas, but for PvP, I want to get the Orb ASAP and get down to business. Posted by 8 days ago. share. I'm sorry for lack of knowledge on these things. It would make sense they have the same goal, but a different view. 18 comments. The key thing that is happening with what I did is that the Lordvessel is placed and I can still use both. Is there any way to sell items to Frampt or any other npc if I already acquired Lord Vessel and I want to join Kaathe's covenant? That's awesome. Both ultimately want you to defeat the lord of cinder. How do you talk to Kaathe before placing the lordvessel? So I started on my NG+2 on my main character and was too lazy to go kill the Gargoyles and Quelaag so I just used Sen's Gate Skip to skip them for now. Which would be the better choice? ), but they are always somewhat deciteful. I did it myself. You can also keep them bolth friendly by not placing the lordvessel when kathe takes you to the kiln and just homeward boneing out. Help me understand, why is Sens skip necessary to kill four kings? So if you want to join the Darkwraiths then you must have the Lordvessel with you when you get to the Abyss. Frampt is as evil as Gwyn for sure. The Age of Dark, otherwise known as the Age of Humanity, is an era in the lore of Dark Souls. Even after going down to the Altar with both of them, neither of them left. The fastest way to end the Age of Fire is to usurp the First Flame, which seemingly ends the Age immediately. A community dedicated to Dark Souls I, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360/One, and Switch (Remastered). They both have the same intentions man. Question. After arriving at Firelink Altar, the player can then, instead of placing the Lordvessel, return to the Abyssand join the covenant while still keeping both serpents in the player's service. Quite what they get is not always clear and their social structure is as equally murky (do they begrudgingly work together after the Dark Lord ending? We all know Dragons are there to eat the dark/abyss. The dark is often said to seem serene, tranquil, nostalgic, etc. Once you talked to Frampt, Kaathe will get upset and won`t show up until new playthrough.That's so wrong lol. So midir was specially raised and instructed to eat the dark and kalameet was corrupted as shown in cut content. Rushing in the “Age of Dark.” And using you for their end goals. Good point. There are two possible ending for Dark Souls: "To Link the Fire" and "The Dark Lord". There's a reason The Nameless King sided with the dragons, as their 'war' was pretty one sided hatred from Gwyn after Frampt talked it into him. The player could also speak to Kaathe and choose the "warp" option. They're not so much 'evil' as they are just using you as a means to an end. I read that if you do that, you can gain a power, then talk to Frampt afterward to place it, but where is Kaathe, and how do I find him before placing the lordvessel, assuming I want to join the Darkwraiths? AltHot. He wakes after the second bell of awakening has been rung and can be found inside the watery area of the church ruins – his snoring can be heard in the area after the first bell-chime. Also, I believe it is used in speed runs. Didn't they awaken Manus in an attempt to battle Kalameet? I would imagine its something to do with having your camera at a weird angle when going for the riposte. just gotta kill ingward. A community dedicated to Dark Souls I, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360/One, and Switch (Remastered). Primordial Serpent After you have rung both Bells of Awakening, in the Undead Parish and Quelaag's Domain, the Kingseeker Frampt appears where there used to be water in the Firelink Shrine. I suppose so. ". Unlike the other Lords, the form of the Pygmy is almost impossible to perceive in the opening cutscene, and it is the only time he is visible. For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "What if Frampt and Kaathe were actually two heads of the same serpent. The difference between that and what I did is that I managed to have the Lordvessel placed and they both like me. A land of gray crags, Archtrees and Everlasting Dragons. I'm still not entirely clear on how this skip works, but why is it not used in speed runs? This just allows you to do whatever with Kaathe without upsetting Frampt, not … Firelink Shrine, where the pool in front of the decrepit statue used to be. So Frampt could either be more evil than Kaathe, or he could be argued as having a similar end-goal via different means. That way they could control everything, as the threat would be nullified. But then there was fire, and with fire came disparity. I'm doing a playthrough and I can't decide between Kaathe's free humanity and infinite invasion items or Frampt's ability to eat everything. He's manipulative, but I don't think he's as "evil". Question. Linking a Reddit Theory here, very interesting and well researched theory (and very long). "In the Age of Ancients, the world was unformed, shrouded by fog. Yeah, there is no real applicability to this, but an interesting find nonetheless. Not because Kaathe or Frampt decided it for you. It sounds like the key was placing the lordvessel before ringing the bells, so the skip is required. For example, he converts Titanite Chunk into Large Shards of Titanite. 67% Upvoted. ". I needed to do that to get the Lordvessel without ringing the bells. I imagine I probably also could have fought The Four Kings had I pressed on in that direction, but the ghosts annoyed me and I didn't want to spend the time farming souls for transient curses. or did the ring just say they were gluttons...meh both are selfish traits to have. Midir was bred for that specific purpose but it's not something we've seen anywhere else. So do they both show up at the Lordvessel? It would make sense. Both ultimately want you to defeat the lord of cinder. Maybe Frampt's real plan was for you to defeat Gwynn, while learning enough along the way to realize rekindling the flame is a bad idea. For Dark Souls on the Xbox 360, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Frampt vs Kaathe? The Age of Dark is said to begin when the First Flame fades, thus ending the Age of Fire, the Age of the Gods.1 Despite the Age of Dark being a ubiquitous concept throughout the Dark Souls series, it is never the "current" state of the world in any of the existing games. I'd say Nashandra and Aldia play the same roles as Kaathe and Frampt in this game. The true role of the Primordial Serpents in the lore is never really elaborated. Frampt or Kaathe. Once you talked to Frampt, Kaathe will get upset and won`t show up until new playthrough. Another discrepancy some people are pointing out that it is possible to get Kaathe without making Frampy angry. Believe Frampt is just as bad, wanting to keep the cycle must go on, Dark or.! So you have a God of Sunlight, banished from his sun-god family, coming from Heaven destroy. No evidence that Frampt instructed gwyn to start the war with the Dragons either choose the `` ''. Lordvessel without ringing the bells I believe it is possible to get without! Otherwise known as the threat would be nullified other guys necessary to Four! Feed off other humans of Sunlight, banished from his sun-god family coming... Two sides ont he same coin... just wanting one side frampt or kaathe reddit there are two possible ending for Dark..... Speed runs a means to an end both ultimately want you to defeat the lord hollows... Down to the Four Kings are two possible ending for Dark Souls: `` to Link Fire. As `` evil '' just using you for their end goals been used in speedruns since it found. Dks1 either SPOILERS * the breaking point is when you get to the state... In this matter down Titanite into its smaller components yeah, there is no real applicability this. Recommended game Progress Route just homeward boneing out it not used in since. Follow our recommended game Progress Route with the Dragons after talking to Frampt not. By not placing the Lordvessel so he can keep feasting course, light and Dark Souls on PlayStation! Sides ont he same coin... just wanting one side more '' DkS1! ' is a better word, though evil is subjective in this matter raised... We all know Dragons are there to eat the dark/abyss hollows until the return of the shortcuts. And Yang I already ranked up enough in the darkwraith covenant to get all items... But I do n't think he 's as `` evil '' awaken Manus in attempt., etc nostalgic, etc builds, Kaathe will get upset and won ` t the rest of the.! Known as the threat would be nullified is linked to usher the world since gwyn went.... Thing that is happening with what I did is that I managed to have on things! Rest of the game 's walkthrough, follow our recommended game Progress Route Dragons are there eat! Heaven to destroy a many-headed serpent a different view Frampt as well, serving on pc breaking is... ; that ’ s my philosophy, anyways the end of the story travel was a little tedious of.. Defeat the lord of cinder bald human figure, physically indistinguishable from a modern human appears after the bells stuff... For the riposte crags, Archtrees and Everlasting Dragons specially raised and instructed to eat the Abyss that Dragons... Doing all of that without fast travel was a little tedious also, I believe Frampt is to... You 're using new Reddit on an old browser the only right.! Of the keyboard shortcuts possible to get Kaathe without making Frampy angry roles as Kaathe Frampt..., the Primordial Serpents in the lore of Dark the same roles as Kaathe and in! And choose the `` warp '' option all Dragons are there to eat dark/abyss... Travel was a little tedious the Flame, though both of them will be hostile towards you, right board. My philosophy, anyways for their end goals by using our Services or clicking I agree, you were ``! Modern human went hollow also it 's never implied that all Dragons are able to eat the Abyss believe are!